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Jim Bohannon  / Pat Brown Radio interview Transcript 02 Aug 2011 ( Video BY HiDeHo4 ) in 2 parts.

Original Source: Jim Bohannon: 17 August 2011

Thanks to Hidedeho4 for videos

Thanks to Sasha for Transcripts


Pat Brown interview with Jim Bohannon. Video and transcript (Part 1)

 The video and transcript for the second part of this interview can be viewed here 

Video by HiDeHo4



interview starts at approx 0:18

Jim Bohannon: Hello there and good evening and welcome to the Jim Bohannon show from Westwood One Radio. We find that Pat Brown is making a return visit to talk about her latest book; the different slide is that you may have trouble buying it. Itís an ebook called ĎProfile of the Disappearance of Madeleine McCanní. Recently you could buy it from but, er, no more. We understand that the book is available from Barnes & Noble online, with their initials for their Nook, enook reader. Pat Brown, er, two stories who I guess...number one: The story of Madeleine McCann. And number two: the story of you and er, and er amazon. Er look, for those, letís just start at the beginning, what is the Profile of the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann all about, letís assume the people here have forgotten who exactly Madeleine McCann is.

Pat Brown: Right, er, Madeleine McCann was a little three year old girl who was on vacation with her parents, erm, Gerry and Kate McCann and their friends, seven of them, and there were also the brother and sister who were two years old and er, the McCanns and friends had a habit of leaving the children unattended in their vacation apartments while they went over to the bar restaurant for a few hours every evening and, the last evening, Madeleine disappeared and she has not been seen since, itís been four years now and no one knows what happened to Madeleine.

Jim Bohannon: now you put together er, an ebook, a profile of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Before we get into all that you have put forward, deposit about the disappearance, what happened with Amazon?

Pat Brown: Well, what happened was... thereís a kind of controversy going on concerning the McCanns over the four years, er the controversy is: Did the McCanns have anything to do with the disappearance of their daughter or was the child abducted by some predator or child sex ring or somebody who wanted a little child. Er, thereís two camps over this and there are a lot of suspicious circumstances, an abduction was never proved to have happened, so the McCanns became suspects in Portugal, what is called Arguidos, and then they left Portugal and since then theyíve been looking for their daughter, they, they, they established a fund to search for their daughter and this was all going quite well, er but when people started speaking up saying, you know, some of us actually think that the parents might be involved, they were shut down because the McCanns hired Carter Ruck, which is like the biggest libel solicitors in, I donít...maybe the whole world, but certainly in Britain, and they would sort of stick this law firm on anybody who said, hey you know, I question whether they could be involved. They sued the detective on the case when he put his book out and got an injunction to get it off the market and so people have stopped speaking out whether, you know, about their opinions because theyíre afraid of Cater Ruck, theyíre going to get sued and so the media has no longer said anything negative about the McCanns, they never...they question nothing any more er, and so Kate just put out her book called ĎMadeleineí and after I read her book I decided I would do what people wanted me to and put out a profile of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and, put out a theory of what I think happened based on the evidence that exists. And I did so and about five weeks after I put it up on Amazon it vanished and it vanished off of and, thatís the British one, and of, out of Germay as well. So it vanished everywhere and people said, what happened to your, your, your er profile, your book? And so I wrote to Amazon and said what happened? Whereíd it go? And they said they took it off for legal conflicts and I said well what legal conflicts are you talking about, and they said, well we need you to change the title and all the contents [both laugh]

Jim Bohannon: Otherwise itís just what we were looking for

Pat Brown: Exactly and so, okay, er do you want to explain this a little further? And then sent me the letter that said they had been received a er letter from Carter Ruck, the solicitors of Gerry and Kat McCann, who said I had libelled their clients and therefore until we worked it out, the McCanns and I, and agreed that the book was not libellous they were no longer going to sell it. So thatís when it disappeared off of the market

Jim Bohannon: Wow!

Pat Brown: yeah! Thatís rather interesting.

Jim Bohannon: You know, I was trying to think of another instance of something similar to this and Iím at a loss, I er, I donít really know of anything quite like this.

Pat Brown: Yeah, well I think this is kind of a new problem with the sub publishing world, now I have two other books on the market published through...the last one came through Hyperion Voice and when I wrote that one which is called the Profile of My Life Hunting Serial Killers and Psychopaths, came out in 2010, I did a lot of cases in that book and before they published it, their lawyers went through it with a fine toothcomb, they made me turn over all my files so that they made sure that the book was acceptable and couldnít risk...everybody can be sued over it... so when Amazon saw that they already had Hyperion Voice saying itís an okay book because our lawyers have already been through it, besides, youíre not going to get sued, we will. But with self publishing, whereís the gate keeper? So Amazonís like ha, you know, your not, nobodyís looked over this book, thereís no publisher except you so quite frankly weíre running a business and we donít want to take a chance with Carter Ruck. So itís kinda funny people say when Cater Ruck comes after you, youíve been ĎCarter-Rucked

Jim Bohannon: Interesting, so in this day and age what youíre essentially saying is that, that as we enter this whole new brave new world of the non ĎGate Keepersí that if youíve got enough money and enough lawyers and a willingness to throw your weight around that you can essentially shut down your critics.

Pat Brown: Exactly and thatís what...thatís whatís been happening with the McCanns, theyíve effectively shut down anybody with an opinion that they do not like. And they donít like mine.

Jim Bohannon: I er, I must tell you that I got an email.

Pat Brown: Yes you did, Iím sure

Jim Bohannon: I did, with a dot uk address attached to it...errrr...

Pat Brown: Mmm?

Jim Bohannon: [quoting part of the email]: ď ...Please be aware that the ebook Ms Brown is promoting is full of misinformation, contradictions and an imagined scenario. Ms Brown has a well known dislike of the McCanns, particularly Kate McCann, and for the past four years has made regular inappropriate and acidic comments about them on social networking sitesĒ

Pat Brown: Well thatís actually accurate. Sometimes you canít disagree with people who hate you. But yes, I have blogged for four years. I have a blog called the Daily Profiler, itís not very daily any more because Iím too busy but itís more a monthly profiler now but I havenít changed the name, er but I often talk about cases like I do when I do television, I do commentary, and I analyse different cases and I try to stick with: look at the evidence and hereís what Iím thinking and I try to put it, I always say itís a theory, this is not fact, this is theory which is what all profiling is and it doesnít say anybodyís guilty of anything. Yes, I have been fairly critical because from the very beginning there was something rather peculiar about the story and of course it starts with leaving three little children alone in an apartment unattended, which is called child neglect, so itís kind of hard to be nice about that in my opinion.

Jim Bohannon: Well, it, it is hard I suppose to do that other things this email er they claim that your book is done in an effort to convince people that Madeleine is dead

Pat Brown: Well I...

Jim Bohannon: What are the odds? What are the odds?

Pat Brown: Well this is kinda funny because on a very sad way, one of the reasons Kate McCann supposedly sues people is because she says no one has the right to say Madeleine is dead because that keeps people from looking for her, which sounds like, you know, if youíre a mother you can sorta see where sheís coming from. But the fact is, the chances of Madeleine being alive Ė even if she didnít die of an accident in the apartment which is what the police believe and what I think the evidence lends to, er, she would likely be dead because if she was abducted by somebody it would be like a sex predator, a child sex predator and they usually kill a child within an hour, and the concept that a child is going to be targeted to go into a sex ring and be taken around the world is not very likely, and on top of it the McCanns put together a campaign which featured her... the eye defect that Madeleine has... which is called a coloboma, which is, you know which is kind of a defect in the eye, a dark line coming out of the pupil. They put that as part of their publicity, well you know if I were a child kidnapper and I had this kid with this very obvious defect Iíd get rid of the child very quickly because she could be identified so I ...

Jim Bohannon: Very easily...

Pat Brown: If she wasnít dead, youíre going to make her dead by doing that.

End of Part One...Continued in Part two

Pat Brown interview with Jim Bohannon. Video and transcript (PART 2)

Video and transcript to the first part of this interview can be viewed here

Many thanks to
HiDeHo4 for the video


Starts at approx 0:16

Jim Bohannon: Welcome back, this is the Jim Bohannon show, weíre talking with Pat Brown, sheís the founder of the
Pat Brown profiling agency online at and for those who havenít heard your previous appearances on this and many other programs er what is it that you do?

Pat Brown: Well er, my main job is to do criminal profiling which I look at cold cases and I do crime reconstruction and deter...try to determine what might have happened and thatís what the police can use as a lead or to start looking in a certain direction, er, to try and get a focus on a case er and of course I do a lot of television which is commentary and not profiling, but er, I enjoy that as well as a good educational route.

Jim Bohannon: Iím wondering since er apparently a a lot of this er this focus is, is based in Britain. We tend to think I guess of the British is almost just quote us. Well, we have a common language and we have two free societies but there are differences, significant differences, and I, I understand that the libel laws maybe one area where there are differences.

Pat Brown: Ooooh...extremely. Theyíre extremely vicious right now in Britain which is why er thereís been a lot...pretty much a shut down of a lot of the media, especially in this case and Iíve had a lot of letters coming in from, from er people living in er UK and theyíre like, please do, please speak out because we canít speak out any longer in, in Britain, itís just not allowed and theyíre very frustrated with the fact they donít have that freedom Ė I think thereís something recently afoot where theyíre trying to ease up on that because theyíre getting, itís getting to be like a totalitarian society where you canít say anything, and while itís true we may be uncomfortable with what somebody says about us and certainly I know because Iíve been on the receiving end of all kinds of interesting commentary, and I, as long as itís opinion I have to live with it, I think its peopleís right to speak with their opinion but when you shut down a society and say you can longer say anything that somebody doesnít like youíve got a problem.

Jim Bohannon: What do you put forward in the Profile of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, what er conclusions do you reach?

Pat Brown: Well erm, again itís a theory so I have to start with that so...

Jim Bohannon: And I understand youíre not at all shy about pointing that out, it is all theory...

Pat Brown:...I have to point that out ...and it really is er

Jim Bohannon: I mean you werenít, you werenít shy about doing it before you [canít make this out] isnít that true?

Pat Brown: Well, the point being that it is a theory and it is my theory, er, it doesnít mean itís a fact, it doesnít mean itís true, it doesnít mean thatís what happened, itís a theory of what could have happened. Er and one of the, the most important thing to be pointed out right away is that there is no evidence of an abduction and thatís where the whole thing started to go wrong in peopleís minds that maybe weíre not getting a straight story here, erm, right after Madeleine went missing er, the...Kate and Gerry called over to England, well actually Gerry did, and he told a number of relatives that Madeleine had been abducted and somebody had jemmied the shutters of the window, essentially crawling in and taking Madeleine away. Well, what turned out, there was no evidence of anybody coming in that window.

Jim Bohannon: Hmmm...

Pat Brown: And when...and Iíve always wondered you know with the McCanns said the police did a poor job on this, they were lying about this, but when Kate wrote her book she admitted there was no evidence of anybody coming through that window

Jim Bohannon: Then how do they propose that the break-in occurred?

Pat Brown: Well, now kind of what they, what theyíve set up is everyday of the week they said they locked the doors to that apartment Ė now wouldnít you, if youíre in an apartment, in a strange country and you have an apartment thatís on a corner, thereís a road going right behind it and thereís a carpark behind it...I donít think youíd leave the doors unlocked when youíre...well, itís bad enough that you leave three children alone so most of us wouldnít do that either, but would you leave your three children alone AND leave the doors unlocked so that anybody could just come in?

Jim Bohannon: Donít think so

Pat Brown: We wouldnít think so, well neither did the McCanns so for four days they locked the doors. The fifth day comes along and they say they left the sliding door open in the back so that somebody could go check on their child.. children when they were busy, and thatís never been done before. So suddenly on the, the last day supposedly someone else checks on their children.. child.. and the doorís left open. So you have to wonder is that really what happened or was the place really locked because if it was locked down then Madeleine was not abducted, something happened to her in the apartment in an accident that was then covered up. Er, so you have to have a way for her to get out of that apartment so you have to have an open door.

Jim Bohannon: What have the authorities had to say? Obviously they have long since investigated this adding for item.

Pat Brown: er yeah, Detective Amaral believed...he was the one that believed strongly that Madeleine McCann died in the apartment, they brought in dogs, er one dog identified decomposition behind the sofa, which is where Amaral believes Madeleine died, er the other dog found blood, these are sniffer dogs so this is not something we can see, found blood in the same location and so Amaral believed that Madeleine had an accident while they were out at the, at the restaurant. He believes to this day that they were responsible for what happened to their daughter and thatís why he wrote the book which got ... you know...they sued him for.

Jim Bohannon: Uhhmm...but theyíre not suing you?... yet.

Pat Brown: Not that I know of.

Jim Bohannon: Not that you know of.

Pat Brown:  I have not received a cease and desist notice nor has anybody approached me on that.

Jim Bohannon: Do you think that you have had a chip on your shoulder er that you just had it in for err...the McCanns...

Pat Brown: For the McCanns?

Jim Bohannon: Yeah, I mean thatís the gist of this email which was piteously dropped on me

Pat Brown: Right. Erm, I have a thing for justice. I have a thing for the truth, and I, as a profiler Iím very bugged by things when I say, wait a minute, somethingís fishy about this, something is ...something seems off here, it seems like the truth is not coming out. I have spoken up very strongly in certain crimes where I believe that weíre not getting the full story, and this was one of them, and because of the... the McCanns had a very high profile they did a lot of media er appearances, and every time I saw them things rang wrong again. Iím thinking, why are you saying that? Why are you doing that? So I think if they hadnít been in the media so much and I hadnít been so aware of what they were saying I wouldnít have commented so often, so they made themselves, you know, they put themselves out there and when you do Ė just like me, Iím going to get people who have things to say about me.

Jim Bohannon: Well, erm, unfortunately I guess it sort of goes with the nature of your work that if you donít like Pat Brown; get in line.

Pat Brown: Yeah, well, pretty much. Yeah.

Jim Bohannon: I mean, I mean, there, there have to be just by the nature of what you have done er, a lot of folks who donít think kindly of you.

Pat Brown: Well, what will happen is, is... when, when you speak out ...when youíre outspoken and, and Iíve never been accused of not being outspoken ....

Jim Bohannon: Thatís true

Pat Brown: Er, you know, there are some people who go on television for example and talk about a case and theyíll be very careful about it, well this could happen; or that could happen; maybe she did; maybe she didnít...and you think: Well, what do you think? Well, when I talk about a case Iím pretty blunt about what I think. Hereís what the evidence here is and hereís what I think happened.

Jim Bohannon: Pat Brown our guest, the founder of the
Pat Brown profiling agency online at profile of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is available at Barnes & Noble and also at


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