WITH THANKS TO JOANA FOR ENGLISH TRANSLATION

Goncalo Amaral's book returns to bookstores Goncalo Amaral interview 20 October 2010

“Goncalo Amaral believes that the Maddie Case process might be re-opened soon”

Transcript/Translation

Rita Ferro Rodrigues - RFR
Francisco Menezes - FM
Hernani Carvalho - HC
Goncalo Amaral - GA
Paulo Pereira Cristovão - PPC
Paulo Sargento - PS

RFR - Why did you want to be here, specifically, today?

HC - Because it's a shame to forbid a man of speaking about how he has worked. People may not like Inspector Goncalo Amaral, people may not even like his work methodology, however what one cannot do is to forbid a man of speaking about his life. The Maddie case was coordinated by Inspector Goncalo Amaral, therefore for him to give an account about that in a book was his right, to report what was in the process in the book was a second right - to forbid him and take the bread out of his mouth, in a so-called democratic country, is not normal. And I won't say anything further regarding that. I suggest you watch the reportage we have done.

GA - It's is a joyful day, a day that I see as important. (cut) We cannot defend a democratic system if we allow Freedom of Expression to be curtailed, as it was in my case. (cut) I know about my daughters' reaction, who have been through a lot; and when they learned about the decision - they were the first to know - they cried, they cried of happiness. (cut) For the past 13 months while I was obliged to be silent regarding this issue, while I was denigrated, while my whole family saw our assets being arrested, the intrusion of my and my family's private life, which has practically taken us close to poverty...(cut) Until that disappearance, until I left the police I was an active element in the Judiciary Police. (cut) Then my life changed radically, I went from a stable, comfortable situation to one far more precarious, jeopardizing even my family subsistence. (cut) I still hold the wish - and I have the certainty that the investigation will be reopened soon. (cut) Nowadays I have no doubts left, the archival for various reasons, was mainly due to political pressures made by the English - I have no doubts about that. (cut) The investigation will be concluded, it will be re-opened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want. (cut) There are hundreds of indications, clues regarding a certain event; and it is that event that some people do not accept and want to conceal. (cut)

Reporter question [muffled by the wind on the micro/sea-gulls and sea waves in the background; sounds like] - How were you able to get through those times? [see comment 10 for alternative translation]

GA - With lots of support, with lots of support from friends, of my family... [visibly emotional]... and with lots of tenderness and love within my family... It's not easy, I guarantee you that.. I don't wish anyone to go through what I, in particular my family have gone through. And I have many doubts that that couple is as Christian or as Catholic as they say they are... (cut)

RFR - Just a small foot note Hernani. Independently of whatever our convictions may be regarding the Maddie case, here [pointing to the screen] this is a case of Freedom...

HC - It's much more than...

RFR - It's a case of Freedom of Expression, and one understands the emotion of Goncalo Amaral with this decision.

FM - A man visibly downhearted...

RFR - Absolutely.

HC - I don't accept this situation; the state is responsible for this, the Portuguese state. This emotion carries, very likely, thirty years of an exemplar career. I do not have any knowledge of Inspector Goncalo Amaral ever being punished on the service of the country, as some heralds of the nation say: “at the service of the motherland”. This one? With all the flaws that you want him to have, but he was “at the service of the motherland”, and various times in places where no one else wanted to be.

PS - Exactly.

HC - Therefore, even if one is not a close friend of Inspector Goncalo Amaral it is a matter of Justice to be here and state, it is a matter of Justice to be here and to say that the Inspector Goncalo Amaral, and in his case I would be, is waiting for an apology of any one [energúmeno - indivíduo desprezível, que não merece confiança; boçal, ignorante - impossible lit.translation] dimwit that has allowed for this to happen. Somewhere in the state...

PPC - There were many.

HC - ... there is a dimwit who has allowed this to happen, because he merely published a book about his job. And the book did not contain any secrets, it contained what is included in the process. If a process is archived then it's public. We're sorry [shortened version of an ironic catch-phrase often used by HC] but that is the truth.

FM - It is an exercise of freedom of expression.

HC - It is indifferent for me who is guilty here; I don't want to know about the Maddie case - that is not what we are talking about.

RFR - That is not what is at stake [crux, point, core] here.

HC - What we are talking about, is, that it was possible for someone, from outside of Portugal, to come in here and to “cook” whatever they felt like! And still add salt, pepper, garlics, coriander and whatever else...

PS - Exactly.

FM - And what does that seem to...

HC - This is what we are talking about! And now watch the rest, I have more to show you.

Reporter question How do you feel regarding the McCann couple visits? [see comment 14 for alternative translation]

GA - On the day that took place, when that 'lady' was in Praia da Luz (cut) On the second of October, just a few days ago... In that day it's my anniversary, and it was also the day when I was removed as head of the department [back in 2007] of Portimão where the investigation was taking place. (cut) I made a comment to my wife - “these people don't do anything without a reason, something is about to happen” (cut) I perceived the child's father as a man who is practical, as a man capable of making quick decisions, and I understood Mrs. Kate (cut) Possibly might have some kind of problem in admitting the truth, or acknowledging an event that has taken place. (cut) The fact that their daughter has disappeared, does not give them the right to destroy any other family. (cut) Stop the humbug...don't fabulate, don't pretend; stop invoking God's name to harm others, because God is above and knows what is happening. (cut) What I would say to them, honestly, if they truly wish to be so Christian, so Catholic, then they should really practice good. (cut) I would tell them that there are plenty more fish in the sea, [Port. pop. proverb “Há mais marés que marinheiros”, lit. trans. There are more tides than sailors, meaning. there are more opportunities] as we say here, in Portugal. (cut)

HC - Paulo, good morning, what do you have to say about this?

PPC - Good morning, well I...

HC - You were a PJ inspector, you were his comrade, you know the paths he has travelled...

PPC - I would like to make a question, and this is something personal. I would like to ask those gentleman at the Judiciary Police disciplinary department who have condemned the coordinator Goncalo Amaral, when he was already retired, for breach of the duty of confidentiality because he wrote this book. What do they have to say about this now? Particularly from the moment when an Appellate court, states, that Mr. Amaral has all the rights to publish that book. They could also have done it to me [ref. to Paulo Pereira Cristovão books “A Estrela de Joana” and “A Estrela de Madeleine” both published previously to Amaral's “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira”] for some strange reason they didn't when I wrote my first book...

HC - He believes that the process, with new information that are bound to appear, might be re-opened, does that make sense?

PPC - It may eventually make sense if we have new elements, new evidence that somehow allow for that reopening, but above all - you've said it before and very well, how did we allow for people to came from abroad and do this “cooking” [pejorative analogy]? But there were also several people inside [in the country] who have contributed with the ingredients [seasoning] for said “cooking”, because otherwise we would never allow for Goncalo Amaral to be “roasted”, excuse my expression, in “low fire” like he was, without being protected, rigorously, by anyone. Except for a few dozen people who know him personally and who have defended him publicly. But, yes, it is possible to reopen the process with new elements, however above all is, as Goncalo said and well, his life first, of the Man Goncalo Amaral, of Sofia [his wife], of the girls [their daughters]...

HC - All of their assets were arrested.

PPC - All of their assets were seized, we are talking about someone who has lost...

HC - Did you feel angered [indignant] during those times?

PPC - Very much, yes. And I was recently with him...

HC - Professor Paulo Sargento, something new is about to take place - Maya [a TV psychic, unrelated to the self alleged psychic lawyer from Madeira] has phoned telling me that something will happen. What I want to ask you is - to you who have followed this case with deep commitment [wholeheartedly] - how come no one has ever filled any complaint in England regarding this case?

PS - Well, that is an unusual phenomenon... The first thing that I would like to do is to send an embrace to Goncalo Amaral, and to tell him that finally there is a first sign of a turn around [improvement] of this whole process. Because this acknowledgement by the Portuguese law regarding this process is like a big rubber eraser who is trying to expunge a huge blemish that has behind it a series of problems. Of which, the first one - and Paulo was just now speaking about the reopening of the case - is to understand of what exactly is the prosecutor of Évora waiting for, let's put in this way, to publish the new endeavours that were proposed, some of which were put forward because they were never fully carried out within the scope of the investigation. And there are at least two points, which under the criminal point of view, are absolutely relevant and need to be evaluated. Second issue, it is something that I would also like to understand and still in the framework of this specific process; three points, one of which is the Minister of Justice that has in his office four emails and a registered letter where it is asked, Mr. Justice Minister [facing the broadcast camera], where it is asked...

HC - Paulo Sargento, you're not going to speak badly of ministers in here, are you? [jokingly manner] Don't get me in to trouble, okay?

PS - No, no.

RFR - But do ask him directly, Dr. Paulo.

PS - I will, it is the same question I've sent to the Minister of Internal Affairs, who had the carefulness to reply, and pass it on to the Justice Minister. Why didn't he answered to this fundamental question - Why did the McCann couple entered two consecutive times, during this same process [the injunction that took place at Palácio de Justiça, Lisbon], by the Judges door [a door reserved to magistrates only]?

HC - Now there's a great question. And now I would suggest that we watch the inspector...

RFR - Yes, let's conclude the programme with the words of the inspector...

RFR/HC - [simultaneously] Goncalo Amaral.

RFR - Exactly.

[follows a repetition of Inspector Goncalo Amaral first segment, inclusively during the final rolling credits]

GA - It's is a joyful day, a day that I see as important. (cut) We cannot defend a democratic system if we allow Freedom of Expression to be curtailed, as it was in my case. (cut) I know about my daughters' reaction, who have been through a lot; and when they learned about the decision - they were the first to know - they cried, they cried of happiness. (cut) For the past 13 months while I was obliged to be silent regarding this issue, while I was denigrated, while my whole family saw our assets being arrested, the intrusion of my and my family's private life, which has practically taken us close to poverty...(cut) Until that disappearance, until I left the police I was an active element in the Judiciary Police. (cut) Then my life changed radically, I went from a stable, comfortable situation to one far more precarious, jeopardizing even my family subsistence. (cut) I still hold the wish - and I have the certainty that the investigation will be reopened soon. (cut) Nowadays I have no doubts left, the archival for various reasons, was mainly due to political pressures made by the English - I have no doubts about that. (cut) The investigation will be concluded, it will be re-opened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want. (cut) There are hundreds of indications, clues regarding a certain event; and it is that event that some people do not accept and want to conceal. (cut)

Reporter question [muffled by the wind on the micro/sea-gulls and sea waves in the background; sounds like] - How were you able to get through those times?

GA - With lots of support, with lots of support from friends, of my family... [visibly emotional]... and with lots of tenderness and love within my family... It's not easy, I guarantee you that.. I don't wish anyone to go through what I, in particular my family have gone through. And I have many doubts that that couple is as Christian or as Catholic as they say they are... (cut)

Ends 11'31''

PORTUGUESE TRANSCRIPT WITH THANKS TO MARIA

Rita Ferro Rodrigues (RTR) entertainer

Another entertainer (boy)    AE .

Hernani Carvalho ( HC)

Paulo Pereira Cristovão (PPC)

Paulo Sargento (P.S.)

+++++++++++++++++++++

RFR: qual a razão que te fez estar aqui hoje?

HC. - Porque é uma pouca vergonha de proibir um homem contar como é que trabalhou . Podem não gostar do Inspector Goncalo Amaral , pode, inclusivamente , não se gostar da metodologia que utiliza, mas não se pode proibir um homem de falar da sua vida. O Caso Maddie foi dirigido pelo Inspector Goncalo Amaral , portanto ele contar isso em livro é um direito; c contar o que está no processo em livro era um segundo direito . Proibi-lo e tirar-lhe o pão da boca , não é num País Democrático, uma coisa com normalidade. Já para não dizer mais nada. Proponho que vejas uma reportagem que fizemos:

G.A.  é um dia feliz, um dia que  considero importante pois não podemos defender um Estado Democrático , quando permitimos que a liberdade de expressão seja

coarctada como foi no meu caso.

A reacção das Minhas Filhas , que muito têm passado, e quando souberam da decisão , foram elas as primeiras a saber, elas choraram. Mas, choraram de alegria.

Nestes 13 meses em que fui remetido ao silêncio , acerca desta matéria, em que fui humilhado, em que toda a minha Família teve os bens arrestados, a devassa da minha vida privada e de toda a minha Família , que nos levaram praticamente à miséria.

Esse desaparecimento, até à minha saída da Polícia, eu era um elemento intervertido até à minha saída da Polícia Judiciária… depois a minha vida mudou de forma radical.

Passei de uma situação estável, confortável  para uma situação muito débil, pondo em causa até a própria sobrevivência da minha Família.

Mantenho um desejo e tenho a certeza que  é uma investigação que será reaberta proximamente.  

Hoje em dia não tenho dúvidas , foi arquivada por vários motivos, principalmente por pressões políticas vindas de UK; disso não tenho dúvidas.

A investigação será reaberta e avançará e far-se-á justiça. É o que nós queremos.

Há centenas de indícios , indícios sobre um determinado acontecimento . E é esse determinado acontecimento que há certas pessoas que não o aceitam. Querem oculta-lo .

Voz off:

Como é que sobrevive ( ruído) a tudo isto?

GA. - como ? Com muito apoio! (02:19 segundos ) Muito apoio de Amigos, de Família, e com muito amor e carinho dentro da própria família.  Não é fácil.

Garanto-lhes e não desejo a ninguém que passem por aquilo que eu…. principalmente a minha família tem passado . E tenho muitas dúvidas que aquele casal seja tão feliz e tão católico como diz.

RFR- independentemente do que todos nós, pelas nossas convicções, do que podemos pensar sobre o Caso Maddie , é que é um caso de liberdade, é um caso  de liberdade de expressão e compreende-se a emoção de GA ….

H.C.  Eu não aceito esta emoção. O Estado( Governo)  é responsável por isto , o Governo Português . Esta emoção carrega 30 anos de carreira , exemplares. Não tenho conhecimento de o Inspector Goncalo Amaral ter sido punido ao serviço do País , como alguns arautos da Nação dizem : " ao serviço da Pátria" . Este , com todos os defeitos que lhe possam pôr , esteve ao serviço da Pátria e muitas vezes

em sítios onde ninguém quis estar . E, portanto não sendo amigo íntimo do Inspector Goncalo Amaral , é uma questão de Justiça estar aqui a dizer que o Senhor Inspector Goncalo Amaral está à espera , no meu lugar eu estaria, do pedido de desculpas de um qualquer energúmeno que permitiu que isto acontecesse.  Há algures no Estado ( voz off: foram muitos) alguém que permitiu que isto acontecesse. Ele limitou-se a publicar um livro sobre o seu trabalho . E o livro não tinha segredos, está baseado num processo . Que está arquivado o processo é público. Temos pena ( expressão que significa LAMENTO MUITO e não aceito) . É a verdade .

( interrupções dos entrevistadores)

HC: do que estamos a falar é como é que foi possível alguém de fora de Portugal

chegar aqui e cozinhar o que lhe apeteceu e ainda lhe pôs sal, pimenta, alhos, coentros e mais que fosse.  É disto que estamos a falar.  E, agora vê o resto pois tenho mais para te mostrar.

(vow off): comma é que sente estas visitas do casal McCann?

G.A. - olhe, no dia em que isso a conheceu , em que a senhora (kate) esteve na Praia da Luz, no dia 2 de Outubro, há poucos dias, nesse dia eu fazia anos e também foi o dia em que me tiraram da chefia daqui, do Departamento de Portimão , onde corria a investigação. Eu fiz um comentário para a Minha Esposa ,

" estes senhores não fazem nada por acaso . Alguma coisa está para acontecer . O pai da Criança é um homem que é prático, um homem com decisões rápidas e tenho a noção sobre  a senhora Kate de ter um problema em admitir determinados factos… o que aconteceu. O facto de lhes ter desaparecido uma Filha não lhes dá o direito de destruir seja qual for a Família.

Deixem-se de mentiras, não inventem, não simulem , não invoquem o nome de Deus , para fazer mal aos outros. Porque Deus está lá em cima e sabe o que se passa.   O que lhes diria a eles é que , sinceramente, se querem ser tão cristãos, tão católicos , digo-lhes que de facto pratiquem o bem . E diria também que há

" mais marés que marinheiros", como se diz ( significa que as coisas poderão não ficar assim; que o poder pode passar).

H.C. (00:05:56)